If certain grimores and ancient texts are to be interpreted in this context, this was a fringe benefit of the great work, transmutation of the soul. Think about things like that when you hear legends of transmutations, many obvious, and many not. This is where shit breaks down, and we just have to accept that reality is bullshit, and people like me can only adapt to living in the matrix if we endeavor to become like Neo, and grasp the limitless powers of our own godhood, that know no restraint. You need to have a self image that will attract what you want, not unintended bullshit, and actually try to pursue a path of magick that would enable you power to evoke deep changes in the universe.
Please can you post it anyway? If you can make a physiological change through reprogramming - either through seals and spirits, or through repeated mental concentration, visualizations and commands — then you can change your DNA and your physical appearance. This is obvious when changes occur through illness or elation and exuberance. Much more can be done with magic. Just ally magic with our human knowledge and you will win in life.
If your ugly, your ugly. Best of Luck, -Frater Apotheosis.
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Chinese doctor Alex Chiu claimed that facial imperfections are due to an imbalance of chi and he sold magnets and herbal supplements to correct and balance facial imperfections. I think his work is good in theory, but his actual devices need work. Just as you can do the same physical object using various methods, the same mental state could be obtained in different ways. However there is a difference between creating an object and doing magick. In the past, where we lived in very coherent culture and we had no easy access to variety of informations from around the world, despite individualistic differences, we could apply more or less the same schema for magick ritual.
However nowadays with different beliefs, approaches, different cultural bases, different upbringing, we may not be successful using those old recipes, because they might not apply in our case. This complicate things and requires of an adept an ability to create rituals for themselves. On the other hand, we tend to believe and relay on social data, so those old ways are still used, often with success by many. The point is that magick is much more complex then doing a ritual from a recipe.
Of course you can do that in old fashioned way and that is also good and that can lead to good results. On the other hand, magicians nowadays know that methods could be personalized and they do that — they create their own rituals. They are not more or less correct if they work for them. You just have to find out for yourself by practicing. Connect with their energies and ask them to bless ritual tools, imbue them with your energy proper visualization and feeling of an energy and add some symbolical action to it like anointing it with oil or making symbolical references to the task of each tool tools are often associated with different elements.
You may also pray upon each tool. It all sounds easy and can be done easily if you are strong believer type. But if you expect certain results that are tangible and you have no mediumistic skills beforehand, doing that simple thing may require years of practice. However if you want to use a recipe that has certain history and tradition, use the one that feels most appropriate for you.
A good ritual changes your perception of reality strongly at the moment of doing ritual but that passes with time, more subtly but persistent on the long run. When you think about something, you automatically put certain energy into it so the fact of perceiving an item as blessed imbues it with proper energy. It is as simple as that… Even with usual daily action you do that unconsciously. When you prepare food, you influence its energetic state. Have you noticed situation when a tool was working flawlessly in one hands while braking over and over when someone else took it in their hands?
What you think does matter. That is why, blessing could be extremely simple act: But remember, blessing should never be mechanical action, it must be act of faith, focus on certain aspect of the item. You must perceive it as special, blessed and it will be. Thanks for such an in-depth response to my question. I understand what your saying. I really appreciate your help, thanks again!! You are seriously misguided, my friend. The circle does not protect the magician. And it most certainly does not hold the entity within it.
The circle is established as the center of the Universe, as a sacred space. The demon materializes in the triangle. It is not constrained there, but directed there. And evocation does not mean commanding, forcing or threatening the demon with shitty Abrahamic or Solomonic symbols. Demons WANT to be evoked. And I usually do evocations either through my own spiritual power or by opening the sigils of the four quadrant demonic Gatekeepers or, in special situations, the four demonic Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
Every time I say that name the shackles break and power starts flowing through me. An evocation suggests godhood, power, partnership with demons, taking communication to the next level, making pacts, learning and much, much more. Do not take this the wrong way, rather take it as a motivator: First, my article is not a complete article on the subject, there is much more to write about it. Also known CM rituals do threaten demons with abrahamic names. Maybe there are other methods they use, like I said I am not CM expert, but old grimoires utilize this one.
Second, you missed the point that evocation and invocation are somewhat arbitrary terms. CM evoke force, command , while invocation is shown in opposition as polite invitation. However there are other ways to define evocation or invocation as you clearly did. There are also various ways to understand that process. Third, I applied various qualities to those two methods of summoning to strongly differentiate them but you can easily say for example: Fourth, invocation and evocation is as far I am concerned an English thing.
As you may noticed, I am not native English speaker, so distinction between invocation vs. I just wrote what I thought about the difference of those methods. For practical purposes of satanic practice, either you treat demons as equals, that deserve respect invocation or you are more forceful from whatever reason: Some satanists do use evocation.
Each to his own, but a standard and advised way of summoning demons is still invocation as described above. If you however understand this therm differently, then you may do invocation by one definition and call it evocation… This is occultism and there are no clear and strictly defined lines. Definitions should mean something but if you go into details on them, you will see their imperfection and how easily can be discarded if you just use different line of reasoning as you are doing.
Invitation in fact should be strong and decisive. And demons do want to hear what we want of them, very clearly! However there is a difference between being a commanding jerk as evocation is usually portrayed or strong willed and decisive person that summons persons for something.
Gain is always in a background no matter what we do. We want something, demons want something too, although often what they want is different what we might think they want. Articles on the site are meant to be as a starting point for own practice, not a source of all knowledge. Real knowledge should obtained by self experience and no article would ever cover even a fraction of it. Please do not mistaken my articles for what I know or experienced. This is neither wise, nor well received by anyone.
It also makes only you look bad, no matter if I am right or wrong as to the matter of the subject. Such experienced person as yourself, should know better and be able to behave more maturely. Way to go, keep up the good stuff. Evocation is very good for communicating with spirits clearly, for making agreements, for learning stuff and much more.
And what do you think demons want us to do? But for a satanist an evocation is not based on insecurity. Again, what do demons want us to become? I spoke with Azazel and Lucifer a great deal and they taught me some insane stuff. Trust me, demons WANT us to be stronger than them, to be the most powerful gods in existence. No, immature was something entirely different. In this moment discussion is ended, no productive further thought exchange can take place, no one learns anything. Granted, that you gave your reasons before, but the remark on the end canceled the effect of it.
It was completely superfluous. If you think you understand something better, fine, explain, I am open to discussion. But never insist so persistently and so obviously that someone is wrong, mistaken or… worse in any way because of that. Any teacher that looks down on others, depreciate others is not a teacher but an asshole with complexes. Such person is not suitable for teaching and should be fired.
Ok, let me make this matter clear. My intentions were not to insult or offend you by showing off. My intention was to provoke you to do something better than what you did before. My intentions are to help and improve. So I may be non or little responsive for few months even. I have a question for you…I am newbie satanist.
As a newbie I been giving myself the time to read and do research on conducting invocation and evocation rituals. My question for you is this…as a newbie would it be better for me to start with an invocation or evocation ritual? My main goal is to make an agreement pact with Mesphito. But I do wish to further more get to know him on a more personal level. What do you think? I always recommend invocation as respectful method of approaching demons. There are some ways to do respectful evocation but I see no point of that. I have never ever heard about a CM or GT practitioner to constrain a spirit in a circle.
The spirit is constrained in the triangle. The circle is for the magician. I am not a ceremonial magician myself. I know that each individual has their own pace with working with energies and contacting demons but on average if there is one , how long does it take to begin to talk to or even make contact with a demon?
I currently have restrictions on use of candles or incense and so I was wondering if there was a way to still bring out a manifestation of the demon I am trying to contact. I have no idea: Differences are too big to say anything certain. Persons gifted with mediumistic skills can have results at first time, while some may need many, many years… There is no studies about it so there is no statistics about it, and there is no info on average time of the learning curve.
Broadening my perspectives and educating myself on all types of religions. Ever since I was young, most likely around four- I had a fascination with the concept of demons and so forth. However, years and years later- As I am a young lady still. I believe they work and a part of me is still not fully there and there is NO reason for me to be! So as I said, I recently got a Ouija board, and I tested it out- nothing, notta. If anyone here knows a demon that deals with other dimensions, knowledge etc- that would be fantastic! At the time I was younger so perhaps that had something to do with it?
They say children are more capable to those things, right? Doing something repeatedly may increase your skills and mental discipline but your mental state waves so to speak. So one day you can be successful and yet the next one, nothing works. Also, not every method work for every person.
I personally never tried Quija so I have no insight tips about it: You are on your own with this. We all were at such point. Most people have no time to guide others step by step when it comes to such personal matters. If you screw up, nothing will happen. If you succeed — congratulations. The only dangerous thing about the whole process is your own fear or mental illnesses you may have. People with mental illnesses or weak grip on reality are always in danger to lose it. People who approach it too seriously or with too big or false expectations usually are disappointed that nothing dramatic happened and then look what did they do wrong or look for others to give them answers.
I was learning esoteric stuff since I was years old and yet, my first contact with spiritual entity Satan, then my guardian, then other demons happened when I was But somehow people who are completely new to this, want to have stunning and strong results like on movies just after first time…. But that is why I published my site, so you can read, study and experiment yourself, till you manage that ability.
So patience, motivation and endurance are traits you need to have to succeed on that road. Sir Zalbarath, I have tried many methods of summoning, but no results yet. So I was wondering is there another way to do this. Some way that will help bypass certain physical problems and allow true communication. Any help would be appreciated. I was wondering if it could have some connection, or if you had any idea if this could be related to your knowledge.
I understand you completely because as a child I had the same situation. At some point I was so desperate monsters cornered me that I overcame my fears and threw myself in desperation suicidal attack ;P. Although those monsters ate me… it resulted in falling down and awaking. When I was older, such dreams became rarer and I grew enough to overcome fear earlier and fight back, eventually I just stopped fearing and once I waited for the monster calmly and ask it to stop and… that was the last dream of that type.
Or maybe some spiritual guardians are putting us under some sort of dreamy combat situation to exercise us, strengthen us. Hello, I have always been interested in satanism. I have always wanted to work for him, and I respect him and his demons completely. Since I was very young I have always wanted to be a vampire, do you think a demon could make me into one? Of course I am willing to pay a price, and work toward it.
Which demon do you suggest? Not sure if I can help. There are some vampire groups and gatherings, but they have not much in common with vampires in books and movies. There are people who believe they need some symbolical amount of blood, or that they need to suck out energy of people, etc.
But I do like vampire in books or movies ;. However if you believe it hinders you somehow, you should get rid of this conviction, because your mind is the most important factor here. I summoned this demon not to long ago i started frecking out the sun light look red everything was evil feeling i cut it off and felt a very sharp pain in my head but now i have the urge to summon it again the demon was Abaddon should i?
I await that a person should be aware of what is doing and accepts possible consequences. You are free to decide. May be… That makes life exciting. In the dream he had ashen skin and dark eyes if that additional information may mean anything. He also said something along the lines of himself providing Enlightenment and power in exchange for something of his choice.
I would like to know what the friendliest demons are in your opinion. You see, I am but a teenage girl full of several limitations and have a bit of a superiority complex ha , but not towards demons. The worst part is I am also conscious about my complex and well, outward greed. Would that be offensive to a demon? If I do have a good experience then I would gladly contribute to the Satanic community.
Such as the flickering of channels on a television to objects moving in my room and the occasional appearance of tall ashen figures. They never harmed me so I never payed them much attention. Do my early encounters mean anything? Any other advice at all on summoning demons would also be very much appreciated!
Would that be harmful to the demon or make my chances of contacting a demon any less conceivable? I would like to make the space as comfortable for thus demon as possible! If you have any advice for doing so that would also be appreciated. Could establishing a relationship with a demon be non consensual? Others may only guess. Besides, most people merely describes the dream but says nothing about the feelings and emotions, although those are the most important part of it.
Dreams are made of your subconscious, your programs so the same thing may mean different things for different people depending on their subconscious schemes. The demon from yor dream may be or represent Lucifer I consider him a different entity then Satan — He is a demon of knowledge, enlightenment among others. But it also could have been Satan himself also promoting knowledge. Even when baking pies some people can mess everything when following recipe ;P.
There is no rule here. Some people can have quick and strong results, others may need years. However your attempts are never in vain. You are allowed to make mistakes. It seems that your room is already a good place for them. Your senses are stronger and capable of receiving more then just physical. It depends on you, how you build your relationships. With some demons you will have just good relationship, with others exceptional. Just like with various people. Even if you are not aware of a demon, you can subconsciously let him in: But if you are sure of yourself, feel safe and like demons, you can surely make positive relations with them.
I have a very strong connection with belial for some reason. I even feel that i carry certain traits of this demon. I do my occasional lesser invoking ritual of the pentagram everyday, for i am interested into thelema. But whenever i tried this method of communication with Belial, i am charged sooooooooo much i can do whatever in my day. Since you have already a good connection with Belial, why to force something out? Of course you can use ritual and rewrite it to respectful invocation.
I see, but i was curious. Legemeton, Grand Grimoire, Grimorium Verum. The evocation fascinate me a lot. In ALL grimoires out there it is perfectly stated that they are malignant deceitful beings that can instantly kill you if you exit the circle without a proper banishing.
Just a true aspiring magician, and i seek to learn more. I think that we OWN our life, meaning we create our reality. This means that we are safe if what we create is safe. If so, why did you focused on it, feed your emotions, prolonged it? Feeling safe is so strong that any demon feels safe for me. It may not be for you but you get the point. The best way to find appropriate demon is to research and check out your gut feeling. Goethia Lesser Salomon Key , other grimoires or various online lists may help you with that.
Study their history, drawings, sigils, correspondences and other informations. Usually one can tell to which demon is drawn to. If you find several demons that do things you want, also cross fire with your gut, which one seems most exciting to you? Go with that feeling and start meditating, praying, making requests, celebrating or summoning the demon. It may not be immediate. You can ask for name, notice what pops up in your head. In this way you can meet new, unknown demons. They are not worse or weaker then those popular in grimoires.
There are tens of thousands of demons, so be open for any new one. This is Zack… I tried to contact Raum using the above ritual with one candle and I repeated his name over and over adking for his presence and aid in between for about a half an hour after opening the circle. Now I am feeling pressurize on my ears an Ihave started crying although I am not sad or happy.
This was my first try at the ritual and I did not expect it to work. Idk if it matters but i am Do you understand if this was an encounter? Many people experience things like you: Understand that being able to hear and talk with demons is a skill or ability. Those with mediumistic talent have easy, others must learn it. However most people is deaf for subtle signal signs and no ritual can help them, at least not right away. So for a first attempt, it looks quite promising. Years of experience and practice however increases your chances and ability to have more clear communication. Just assume that ritual was successful, even if you felt nothing, and expect results.
It seems that you already were given enough signs. Now, speak up what you wish. ZD sigil has 9 points recalling 9 demonic presences. First points corresponds to creation, Lucifer is enlightenment, next is destruction and this cycle repeats 3 times. Is that site truthful for the most part? As for the demon Astaroth, is there any evidence she used to be Isis as JoS claims? I prefer to focus on here and now, not ancient beliefs, connections, history, etc.
Dukante demons are quite friendly and advised for newbies. Some believe the same about goetic demons, while others claim them to be more harsh. I guess it depends from person. Those with issues create their own inner demons and real demons just reflect them, strengthening problems.
You are always in charge of your life. Thank you for the quick reply. The reason why I asked about Isis is because I want to know the exact entity I am working with. And if something does go wrong, is there any way to unsummon a demon? You can unsummon the demon by clearly saying farewell and having the intention to end the meeting. However people with issues, like I said before, may have some negative outcomes.
Usually when you are certain of yourself and not afraid of spiritual beings, nothing will bad will happen. Reality is, you have power over your mind, body and life and others can enter there only when you somehow let them. Besides, those stories you mentioned about are fake, to work people from messing with those things. In reality lot of people are doing it and nothing bad happens. Of course there will be some victims that do screw things and have problems then they go whining. Just feel safe and secure and you will be.
That is why most techniques try to teach you how to control over your own mind and emotions. That makes me feel a little bit safer. So, having depression would be considered a mental issue right? How would a person even acquire one? Actually being depressed totally changes your perception, clouds your judgments. I saw many times like people who had depression moments were disconnected from reality and created all imaginary reasons for their own state. Luckily when you are back to normal, that mental cloud is lifted.
Actually in any strong emotional state you are compromised. But those moments are gone and you are changed… So most prevailing state is what you are. That is why you need to aim for the most awesome state and make it default: Grimoires are just magick books about summoning demons. Be aware that most old grimoires are written from christian perspective so they present forceful evocation methods of summoning demons by using christian symbolism.
Those are not suitable for satanists, however we draw some inspiration from them pictures, sigils, references, etc. So, the matter of Diabolism Biblical Satanism is the most obscure one. Here is my standard post, which is never answered by any Satanist whatsoever only a non-satanist occultist once told me that I am right and that Diabolism is not a myth, as the neo-satanists try to present it:. But I never managed to find a real magical pattern for what I am doing, although I do know it is out there, somewhere. Despite my inspiration drawn from Platonism, as well as from several Gnostic Christian texts, my actual Satanic philosophical view was mostly influenced by Deathspell Omega lyrics.
I was grown up in a slightly heavy Christian environment, not oppressive at all however. At the beginning, I believed Judeo-Christianity is the spiritual enemy, but as I got older, I found out that the Bible contains way too much Theological knowledge for a Satanist. Both as an inspiration and as a strong enemy of Satan to recognize. And the Word was towards God, and God was the Word. Analyzing both the Gospel of John, and The Book of Revelation, I am almost convinced that they were written by a different author however, even though it is mentioned in the Life of John the Theologian that he was indeed exiled to Patmos.
The Gospel of John was written after the Book of Revelation, yet contained no eschatology at all, and their literary character is extremely different. There was recently another crime committed in the Name of Satan, so I do feel that I should distinguish myself from such acts. Crowley himself can also be accused of several human sacrificies, and he did admire Jack the Ripper, believing he was an occultist as well.
There is always a way of honouring His Almighty Majesty and being absolutely legal at the same time. There is a dead-end for me here. I do believe that this was also the reason he died the way he died: He refused to choose a certain path, and the many entities that he opposed by using entities opposed to them as well, actually attacked him. His actual Will was to oppose Christianity as much as possible because of the extreme Christian environment he was grown up in, so he was refusing his right spiritual path.
And secondly, because there can be traced no evidence at all that he was a successful magician. So, as a conclusion, I declare that I have found success in Magick only by changing several rituals, like the Invocation of the Bornless One, according to my believes. I was too young back then to contact her for advise because I was hoping she would stay, and I would have plenty of time to do that. But, instead, she left the forum and, afterwards, the admin admitted he was a Rosicrucian, not even a Satanist.
There is some kind of witch-hunt against Diabolism spread out by the alleged modern Satanists, both Theistic and Atheistic, as if they are enemies of Satan as well, and wish to scatter every existence of real Devil Worshipping into false myths. Even the Ritual of the Beast by Aleister Crowley, mixes Satanism with the Egyptian religion and with the anti-satanic entity of Horus. Why mix it with anything else in the first place? Christianity offers Prayer as a means of meditation and the Bible rejects Occultism of any other kind. Although Prayer is a form of Occultism as well as Crowley also stated , the Bible rejects any other form of it.
So, my first question is this: Have you ever come across a Satanic sect worshipping the Devil of the New Testament? My second question is this: And, strangely enough, the demon was Abalam. One of the demons coming along with Paimon after invoking him. So, have you ever come across a Satanic invocation of Paimon? Yes, many satanists I came across do belie in biblical myths and Satan as it is believed in christianity, although clearly there were some differences in their world view comparing to christians.
I noticed that with time, they tend to change slightly their beliefs going further away from strict biblical views, but they stay with fantasy reality of the bible nonetheless. I figured it has to do with mental abilities that describes how we are able perceive and understand the world.
People are variously equipped so some just naturally choose to believe in religious stories, because in some level it makes sense to them. I was strongly against such views once, but with time I came to accept it and understand that we all can only believe in what our mind tells us by the way it is constructed. Everything that one experiences must make sense and have confirmation in his mind. Everyone lives in own subjective perception bubble made by inborne mental abilities, upbringing, experiences and choices. Maybe because of cool figures ;?
There is something in them.
You can achieve the same results in countless ways. I used to relay on my intuition. If I was about to contact with Paimon. I would do some research about him, found some symbols, main features and then meditate on him, then note what comes to my mind. I would then call him directly in my mind and see if there is some result. So no elaborate rituals. I want to serve my master SATAN for the rest of my life… because i know that he can grant my wish… i want revenge….
It will make you prisoner in a circle of hate and it will hunt you forever. Just let it go! Free your self, try another look at people and at your self. I can be wisdom and love. Revenge as everything can be destructive for the person who wish it but in some cases it can be also a tool to rise above it because there is no greater revenge as to transform from victim to strong person who controls own life and is successful. There is no good or bad emotions per se, there are only emotions that feels good or bad at the moment and sometimes revenge feels good, empowering — for a brief moment.
Useful techniques take the energy from that feeling and channel it for something constructive. I live in poverty and lack the ability to do this ritual, however I spent many nights doing this ritual at my Astral Temple and I have still yet to get any luck. I have not heard from Satan yet, or at all. But I was wondering how long does it usually take people to communicate with Satan and his demons.
Thank you in advance — Jay. Instead of looking for something special, just consider what you want to say or obtain from this relationship and simply speak out in form of prayer, music, ritual, in thoughts, whatever floats your boat. If you want to get rich, first you have to handle normal earnings, then move on to higher ones. Just as normal people must climb the mountain and is not teleported right to the top, the same goes here.
Basically what is the problem? Not having a job or not having a right job? Those two are connected. Usually the right job is so exciting, that you are not there for the money. So find what you are good at, what you love doing and what you would do even if money would be no issue and focus on that. And sometimes more profound changes must be done, not always right away.
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Then get those qualifications, while doing other one. Divine beings like Satan and demons can also speak through others, giving you clues and inspiration. So, understanding he is still here, the other day I exorcised him in the name of Satan and compelled him to go and kill somebody I had in mind if he wanted a sacrifice. As something strange and unusual. This way you show respect. Killing random human is not a sacrifice by any means.
Thank you for this. In many ways this is exactly how I feel and it makes me feel less alone. Why does it have to be so messy and difficult? I feel like this is exactly how I feel. But I feel like his parents and mine would be devistated if we split and I would be blamed for breaking up a home. Although, no one knows how one feels or how one can truly be happy. Stay and be miserable in hopes that the attraction will come back?
Or leave and try to be happy again? I do know I want him happy too. I want him happy. Anyone with tips or advice please share! Joy, I am just like you. But I have been married over 30 years. Kids grown left home, small family, no grandkids etc. I have never said anything to my husband just lived in silence. There is always the fear of even more loneliness or finding someone with whom maybe there is chemistry but maybe eventual problems in new relationship will kill chemistry. Married 1st man went out with so not experienced in relationships.
You have already discussed with your husband. Lucky for you he seems to accept as some men get aggressive. Wish you luck and happiness. I also feel like these posts echo my own story. My husband and I have been married for nearly 24 years. We have an year-old daughter, and the last time we had sex was the day she was conceived. There is no attraction between us. Finally, two years ago, I had a one-time affair with a man who lives far away, and whom I only see a couple of times a year.
My affair partner broke it off suddenly shortly after because he was overwhelmed at work and had no time for me, but it left me so devastated that I went into a depression, which tipped off my husband, which led to a confession, which led to a year's worth of counselling. It cost a fortune but didn't help much, and now here we are two years later. I have resumed a long-distance relationship with my affair partner, but as his job consumes his life, it's not very satisfactory. He has told me that he will give me what he can, but he has made it clear that he is limited in what he can offer.
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However, the few times we have been together, the sex and emotional connection has been amazing, and not surprisingly, I find myself fantasizing about him all the time. My husband and I are mostly compatible and we get along pretty well. We have a nice home and there are a lot of benefits to staying together for both of us.
For one thing, he makes three times my salary, so I know that if we were to separate, my standard of living would take a huge hit. Also, we are in our mid's, so there are a lot of practical reasons to stay together. We are approaching retirement and potential health situations, and that is a scary thing to face alone. So I have the same quandary as everyone else: Do I stay in a loveless, sexless marriage that functions as a platonic partnership, denying both myself and my husband the full satisfaction that we both would like?
Or do I leave the marriage and destroy our life together and our family, striking out on my own for what seems like a trivial reason? Or do I stay in the marriage and continue to sneak around with other sex partners on the side, having to hide this from him? We have had the hard conversation in which I have asked my husband for the freedom to see other people sexually, since we both acknowledge that our relationship does not work sexually.
But although he initially agreed to this, he has since back-tracked, and decided that he is not ready to have this sort of agreement, and he is not willing to continue the conversation because he is not ready to have that conversation yet. It's been several months, and we are both going along, pretending that everything is all right. Our daughter just started college, and neither one of us wants to derail her or add anymore stress to her life.
So, for the moment, we are just hanging tight in this limbo. Man oh man… This entire post……… Im in the same situation. I have 2 kids and a new one on the way. We finally got married In July after being engaged for 4 years. I stalled like crazy bc i knew in my heart that we had no chemistry and it was off. Its so hard bc i want the kids to see a 2 parent home but its killing me…. I am miserable… I try to pretend and fake happy… I try to enjoy US… But my mind wants to be some where else… I think after this baby is born im out… I am just going to step out on faith and stop being so afraid and go..
He is is a wonderful dad and great provider but this "safe choice" life is too difficult. I feel bad because women literally would kill to have a man and be married and have kids.. Im thankful for my family but why should i have to keep this going? Oh and the kids notice.. They are not stupid.
Esp my daughter who is 9. I feel like a brat for even complaining bc im not being cheated on or beated on…. Its no chemistry, its bc i have too do it Sex, no attraction, and boring! Maybe we can take a break and this might help… I dont know. All i know is im tired of talking about it and something has got to change!!
He is a great dad and i cant imagine them having another dad but as for me… Im just mentally checked out. Bc im so lost.. What did you ever do? Stuck is an understatement.
Hmmm, I'm in a similar situation but without kids or owning anything. The sex was great for quite a few years until it wasn't. Something changed, something shifted and for me it was not going to come back. I was no longer attracted to him, but it was for various reasons not even about sex. He refused to let go, begged me to try, we spent a few months apart, a month apart, now a month apart and he's still moaning and crying like a baby.
I believe sexual attraction and chemistry in a relationship is important! I can barely kiss him anymore, I hate him touching me and resent that he insists sleeping in bed with me because he couldn't sleep in the other bedroom without me. And I caved every time. He wanted to try counselling, but like many women, once you decide something, once you feel something in your gut, that's it.
It makes no difference. Why should you force yourself to try be attracted to somebody that you are no longer attracted to? I don't want to hurt him, but it's hurting me. I was angry for awhile, but that passed to tenderness. I do love him, I care about him, he is my kin, he is my best friend, but he's more like family than the love partner I crave. In relationships people grow and change overtime and sometimes end up on different paths. It isn't the end of the world, we know better than to fall for that until death do us part.
Why not accept that you are best friends and have an amazing relationship that should last for life? I was told to have kids with someone that if the relationship did fail you would at least remain excellent friends and family and be awesome co parents. I am 37 and single, there is no way I can relate to you but honestly this has been my biggest fear, marriage with no chemistry. Just like yourself I am attracted to the bad guys and hence still not married.
I have said no to many good men as your husband. Wondering which one is worse, married into this no chemistry or holding out like myself. I hope this simple comment helps someone as much as it's always helped me. Years ago when I was in my teen years, I heard this woman on the radio taking about what it was like being married for 50 years and how she made it through happily. Her response was simple but amazing and has kept me going through the tough stuff. She said "It's normal for a spouse to fall in and out of love throughout the many years of a marriage.
The key is not having both people fall out of love at the same time. I could just feel it, though it's not something he would have owned up to at the time. Years later, he now agrees that he mentally checked out. No cheating occurred, but we simply weren't at connected.
It was my love for him that pulled us through and kept us going. About three years ago, it was me who fell out of love. It was a slow process, but things weren't good, communication was horrible and a bunch of life stressers piled on all at once. It was he who kept us going with his love for me. To be clear, I'm not talking about pulling each other through via putting up with b. My advice to the original author is to, 1.
End her affair or contact with the person she is clearly chatting with at the very least I'd put money on this fact and 2. Go to personal counseling first, and then go to couples counseling after. Ending a marriage without giving counseling a chance is like sitting on a sinking ship whilst you stare a life raft. Makes zero sense not to try. If you don't feel like trying, get out of your emotional affair first; you'll feel like trying afterwards.
After 24 years of marriage, and 27 years of being together, my wife told me she no longer was in love with me. We have two children whom are now adults, with the youngest being It happened only once … and was not discovered by anyone. That took time, and I was doing ok with the new-found insights … and I left therapy thinking I was mostly ok and that I needed to move on in life.
I was so glad to finally have someone to love … my first and only love … that I stopped my anti-social destructive behaviours and together we were the quintessential happy young couple — we were never great at sex, but for all other aspects of marriage — even communication, we were as happy as could be. And I never told her of my past … until we started to drift apart — sexually — after the birth of our second child, which was 6 years into the marriage. Sex left the building — and life took over. I never understood why I could not commit this last bit of my love for her.
And, she admits that she has issues of closeness also … so … more time goes by, and we keep "trying" … "working" … yet even after attending marriage counselling together … it never did get resolved. We had a great time … but never had sex. Then we came home … talked more … and again neither of us made a move towards the other. That was at the end of September. I was so scared … and so alone … and it was all of a sudden. I realized I needed help, again, and I have since been doing that. I never had a clue … and so I could not understand her response.
In the month it took for me to pull myself together enough to find the help I need and make the arrangements — she moved out of our home — and withdrew from me even more. Granted, I was pretty screwed up … but I found a new place, was diagnosed with PTSD, arranged therapies, and prepared to leave. Then, while cleaning up our home computer, I found a file of pics.
It seems that 3 weeks before my writing her my history and my concerns for us, she had an affair. That discovery changed my fragile mind even more — it made me physically ill — and my immediate thought was that I had caused so much angst with this lovely woman that she had changed her values … and that … that realization … is so fucking PAINFUL. This pain consumed me … it is what drove me — literally — kilometres to get help. I've now been in intensive therapy — EMDR is a blessing — for three months and have made great progress with insightful linkages and all led by being as brutally honest with myself as possible.
It is also very very lonely. What bothers me the most though is the effect this has had on my wife … I really don't know her anymore — she is that different to me now … and I suspect she has been in pain for a long while and it took her that long while to get up her nerve to leave … and I understand that on an intellectual level. Emotionally, I'm so very lost without her so yeah it's very hard to hear that she's already planning a vacation for next month February — something we had wanted to do ourselves but never did … and that she is so so quickly leaving me in the dust.
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This is so hard on me — trying to work on the issues of my early life which is so deeply tied to my present … and my present has imploded. I had the best and I fucked it up by not dealing with my issues that were born in the childhood abuse … catch at it's finest. Nothing is your fault. Hope you get well. Thank you for sharing your story and wow, does it surprise me that there are so many other women in the same situation! The same situation I am in. I'm not attracted to my husband either, but it's not that I'm frigid, it's because I need to feel an intimate connection first before wanting to have sex.
And my husband simply doesn't listen to me, he interrupts me 5 seconds into my "story", and always makes it about him. I try over and over to share myself with him, but he just can't hear me out. I listen to him talk forever and ever, and I know some people who have a wonderful relationship this way.
But it's not for me. I'm sad that he's not interested in what I have to say, how I feel, I feel disrespected, belittled and certainly not loved. So, a logical result is that I don't feel like being physically intimate. He accuses me of cheating, calls me a whore when I spark another mans interest and he even hit me when he found out a friend of mine was hitting on me, even though I told him of. I must be getting "it" somewhere if I'm not doing it with him… And of course I can stay with him so that the kids have an intact family, but is this what I want to show my kids?
That this is a relationship? Where there is no love, no respect, no cuddling, no fun? Lots of arguing and sadness? And that you have to sacrifice your happiness for others? I am not in the position to leave, but if I could, I would for sure. If it were up to me we would keep this house where the kids have their steady home, and a studio apartment that my husband and I share while we take turns living with the kids. I'd have no problems co parenting or with my husband entering a new relationship. We both deserve better and more then this, everybody does.
And no, forever passionate sex is not what I expect, but love and respect and intimacy is. It sounds like you have a wonderful husband who has an open ear and An open mind. But if you feel so opposed to him, there must be something going on and as I've learned in life, you can talk it straight with your brain, but if your heart and gut cringe, something's not right. I wish you clarity and all the best!
And send an update if you ever visit again , I'd love to know where you are now. Hi, I'm responding to your post because it seems fundamentally different from many of the others and perhaps more fixable. It sounds like you simply need your partner to start doing particular things to make it work for you… and there is a good chance he needs the same from you. I'd recommend the book The Five Love Languages. Here's the coles-notes version — we all have certain needs that, when they are not met make us feel miserable. Often, we have different needs and do not notice when we are not meeting those of our partner.
Then we don't meet their needs and it becomes a cycle. If so, the book would recommend you make a systematic project of supplying him with that need for X amount of time — maybe a month, while keeping a record of your actions and what you observe. After that, you could start dropping hints about what he could do for you. If he is feeling good as a result of your actions there is a much higher chance of him reciprocating.
It sounds like the only real problem is your sexual aversion to your husband. The same thing might happen if you meet and marry someone else. Romance is a temporary neurological sate of mind. Partners in good marriages function as friends after romance dissapears and still enjoy sex.
The fact that you can't stand sex with your husband may be due to your unhealthy exposure to abuse and sex in your formative years. If this is so, there is not much you can do about it and you should accept that you are especially challenged in this area. If you look for and find another partner who you enjoy sex with, then the same thing will probably happen again. You may then realize you have torn your true family apart and the regret will be horrible. You have a good life but you may be flawed in an area that will require a lot of therapy to restore.
Acknowledging weaknesses and living life with grace and courage is the best approach I think. I am in the exact same boat as the original writer. I met my husband a couple years ago. We started dating and things were going amazing! He asked me to marry him right off the bat. Seeing that I was nearly 30, and had been a single mom since 21, and had never been married, I quickly jumped on board. I felt lied to and tricked. I started pulling away.
We got pregnant and here we are two years later. Our sex life came to a screeching halt after I had found out about the lies, and after we had a fight where he was drunk and lashed out. I have since then checked out sexually. I just want to be left alone sexually. Every other aspect of our marriage is great. He helps out, cleans, is great with the kids, takes turns letting each other sleep in, works hard, and brings home good income for our family.
We share a lot of the same goals. He leaves for work 3 months at a time. I literally feel like a dead fish sometimes just laying there with no emotion just hoping for it to be over. I toddle with the idea of leaving him but we have a 1 year old together and my 9 year old loves him dearly.
How long can I keep this going?
If we were to split I know we would co parent amicably. It's amazing that so many wives are feeling this way. Unfortunately it appears that my wife is in the same boat. I think she still loves me and I do love her too. But she isn't attracted to me sexually anymore. We have a kid who would be totally hurt if we split. I really don't understand how you could be so unattracted to someone that you couldn't muster up sex with them though.
I mean haven't we all had sex with people who weren't exactly hot before? I'm a pretty good looking guy, in pretty good shape, and i get looks from women. I'm also a pretty good dad and husband. I work hard, help around the house, and with the kid. I don't know, but I don't really feel like I did anything wrong. She agrees, and says it wasn't me, but her…. Honestly, I really do believe many of you women are suffering.
I can't imagine how it must feel to hurt someone who 's only crime is that they love you too much. It really hurts me that she feels that way because I've always loved her more than anything. I imagine my wife feels bad because she isn't giving me what I need. While i would love sex i don't want to force her to do it and i really don't want mercy sex either. Even when she does do it, it's pretty bad now. No passion, no new stuff, just …nothing…. Just keeping it real. I'm honestly considering an affair myself. The weird thing is that even though i have a TON of things i don't really like about her, i do love her in spite of them.
I love my family and I don't want to lose them, but if it makes her miserable to stay, I don't want her to feel obligated either. I just don't know what i did wrong Maybe i'm too perfect in her eyes? I know i'm not perfect, but maybe i'm to GOOD in her opinion. Maybe if she gets a sense that i'm out with someone else or that someone else appreciates my efforts, love, and sex, maybe she'll value me again. Maybe it will backfire. Serious question for you ladies, How would you feel if your husbands started an affair with someone else?
Would you be angry or hurt? Would you be ok with it? You did nothing wrong. It's just chemistry, nothing either of you can really help. I stay in my relationship because I don't want to hurt my boyfriend. It may sound strange, but I would love it if he would find a sexual partner other than me. It would be good for him, quite possibly make him a much happier man, and, since you ask, sure, it may eventually make me realise what I'm missing out on.
He and I met when I was 18, he was just a few years older. Now, more than fifteen years later, it may not be strange that we've grown apart in some ways and grown completely siamese in others. I don't feel any sexual attraction to him anymore, but can't bring myself to leave. You need to realize that this is the exception. I know tons of relationships that last for many years or decades, where the woman never cheats or feels the need to cheat. And the issue isn't that women don't like good men, but most women want to be dominated when it comes to sex.
So a guy can be good and sweet and loveable, but still be a "bad boy" in bed. It's the men who can't or won't do this that often become unattractive to women. Young girls are often into cute, nice boys, and don't really care for rough sex. But as we get older, that often changes, which some men don't seem to realize.
This isn't a criticism of men, just my explanation of things. And regardless of whether a man can be dominant in bed or not — in the end it's really and actually just pheromones and hormones controlling us. When the pheromones of two people don't or no longer match, the attraction will suffer greatly. When this happens, there's usually not much good that you can do about it. Again, this has got nothing to do with guys being nice or not. This is such a great explanation for what's going on in my marriage.
I tried to explain this to my husband but he just doesn't get it. I feel like at this point, if he tried to be dominant in bed, it would just make me laugh. Helps to see a thread where others can relate and googled the same issue. I'm only one year married and don't enjoy sex much. But married at 40 with a long history of lust with men who don't commit and left me heartbroken. Husband is handsome but I've never felt the intense drama and passion which I'd come to equate with good sex. In fact, I always assumed sex was mind blowing passionate because that was the norm in my relationships!
So is it even possible when conditioned for 2 decades to suddenly find a loving and caring family man as passionately sexy? Hmmm I sort of doubt it. But is abandoning caring and stable love to experience hot romp in the hay really wise? Sounds like more self-abuse on the way. It is sad, but obviously the reality for many of us. I felt like I was reading my exact story, married 10 years and together for We have 3 beautiful kids and your story is truly mine! Hi Adri, Still just swinging between tolerating and being repulsed. I'm trying everything I possibly can to work on myself both physically and mentally.
Once I feel completely comfortable that I have worked through or at least accepted my issues, I'll look into next steps again. How are you going?? Love to hear where your at and so nice to know we are not alone! My husband and I have been together for 14 years, married for 11, and have two children under the age of We've had a rocky relationship from day 1.
He was very opinionated, controlling, everything was his way, etc. The past few years he was always angry, yelling at the kids, arguing with me, griping about the house, not taking my side on anything, etc. For example, we went out to eat and I had 2 beers. I remembered because I had one before he got there an one after.
I didn't order one in between so we could order one together when he got there. I got charged for 3 at the end of dinner. When I mentioned it, he told me that the waitresses there didn't usually make those kinds of mistakes and I was probably wrong and really had 3. He said it right in front of the waitress. Okay, so the waitresses are less likely to make a mistake than your own wife.
He never has my back like we're a team. This is just one incident of many. He came how griping about the house yelling at the kids to put their stuff away. I was cooking dinner and hand-washing some dishes. He kept interrupting me to ask me where stuff goes. I told him I was busy and I would help when dinner was done. He kept griping about the way the house looked, talking about how embarrassing it was, etc. He didn't clean anything, do any laundry, bath the kids, drive them to sporting stuff, didn't go to their school functions.
He sat in his chair and watched TV all the time. I started crying and said that I couldn't do it all myself and I needed help around there. His response was, "Why not?! Single moms do it all the time? This is one of the mild incidents. I ended up in what you could possibly say was an emotional affair. It was a guy I had dated for a couple of years in HS; first love, first boyfriend, first kiss, etc.
A few months ago he had just told me he was moving back to town and wanted to see me every chance I got when his house was ready. He helped my husband and I negotiate a deal on a new car while he was in town this trip, he used to be the finance manager at this car lot so he knew all the people and what they could do for us. He met my husband for the 2nd time ever.
My husband did not know we'd been speaking up to this point. My friend died in a horrible accident the next day. After the accident and I was mentally able to speak his name days later, my husband confessed that seeing me with this guy at the car lot that day made him decide that he finally wanted to work on our marriage. I had asked him almost 2 years before and on a couple of other occasions to go to marriage counseling with me.
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